Thinking about prayer...
Happy New Year to all. I'm up past my usual bedtime, since Wednesdays are indoor soccer night, and I need to power down after 90 minutes of running about like crazy without having much of any effect on the actual outcome of the games! I guess I primarily function as the "cone" around which everyone else dribbles... Anyway, I thought we could check in on how 2007 might be shaping up for us, at least as far as we can see at this point. Our church is entering 2007 with a 24/7 prayer vigil. This is the second time we've done this, and it's really an amzing experience... As I've mentioned, we've got some great family events in the spring (a graduation and a wedding)... I've found myself wondering about prayer: what happens, what is about, what do I think I'm doing when I pray, and what is actually happening (as opposed to what I think I'm doing!) It's all the usual questions: God doesn't need us to tell him what to do. How is praying a way of taking part in God and what he's doing? Since God already knows my heart, is the idea of "pouring out my heart in prayer" a way of reducing prayer to therapy? I'd be interested in your thoughts: what are we doing when we pray?
posted by Brian Emmet @ 11:13 PM
9 Comments:
Hey everyone,
Wow...you kind of got me going here.
I just read that the number of blogs in the world will reach 100 million next year and it continued to provoke me to something I have thought about prayer in watching the emerging generations.
Adam and Eve walked and talked with Father in the Garden and then allowed the conversation to be interupted by a conversation with the enemy. His conversation sold them on the idea of not living in constant conversation with God but rather on autonomy...being able to negotiate life based on their own ability to logic out what is good and what is evil.
We are now addicted to autonomy (we now think without ceasing rather than praying without ceasing) and yet hard-wired for constant conversational intimacy.
As a result, we are repelled by this addiction to autonomy from talking to Him moment to moment and living lives of moment to moment obedience...which is really the way Jesus came to show us.
However we are constantly drawn to filling the void with other conversations...and the assortment and variety of these is astounding. Cell phones keep is in constant connection with one another through calls, voicemail, text messages. IM, Email, chats, blogs and more do the same on our computers and now also on our portable devices.
We are constantly seeking connection...constantly depending on anything but Him.
Even in church, prayer has become about showing the people around us something of our theological prowess or ability as wordsmiths. Much of our conversation together is about showing off instead of drawing or provoking one another in to Him.
I am having more and more conversation with leaders that has little to no sense of the presence of the Father or of interaction with Him. The mode of operandi seems to be to "common sense it out."
Tozer spoke of, "The man who would know God must give time to Him." I think that is the only prayer that matters.
I came back from Next knowing that it is time to go deeper.
Sorry too share so much. Your comments overwhelmed me.
Jamie
Thanks for these. I appreciate Robert's point that Scripture commands us to pray, without "explaining" how it "works", and Jamie's point that communion, intimacy, fellowship are what life is all about--and that the WFD (world, flesh, devil) are totally committed to AEBG (anything and everything but God). So I'm not asking how we can better control our prayer lives so that our prayers will be more "effective," but at the same time find myself wondering what is prayer about? Doesn't Jamie's approach tend to push us to individualism: after all, if God speaks to me and I learn to hear his voice and respond in obedience, don't I outgrow my need for other Christians...they kind of get in the way? I'm not meaning to be critical, just asking a sincere question--and i've never felt that Jamie takes an independent/don't-need-you approach. I feel that I "pray much better" in the company of other believers...I also feel I "worship better" "obey better" and pretty much do everything "better" in fellowship with the church. This of course does not mean that I don't need to personally pray, study, hear, obey, etc--but honestly, I feel I do all of these things more effectively in fellowship. Am I copping out, missing the point?
The relationship with the Father and all it includes...talking to Him, listening to Him, responding to Him...requires and provokes a deep relationship to community. I have seen that the pursuit of this kind of intimacy and walking in it makes discipleship and community more necessary than ever before. I need a pastoral voice to help me confirm that I am hearing/have heard correctly and who can support me/hold me accountable in responding obediently. Community provides a climate of support, His presence, accountability and interaction that helps me want to hear Him, know how to hear Him and to live a life of doing and not just hearing.
Acts 2:42 provides a great example of a climate where the vertical and the horizontal are functioning individually and corporately.
That old illustration of the cross with the longer vertical segment and the shorter horizontal segment comes to mind.
I am not sure how anyone could hang out with the Father and respond in obedience and not end up more deeply connected to biblical community. How would He lead you away from that?
I realize this is away from the point...He desires to interact with us...individually and corporately. Disconnected individuals are not much fun to pray with corporately.
Well said, Jamie and Robert, and thank you--I was greatly edified!
Our church has been in a "24/7" prayer vigil this week, ending tomorrow (Sunday, Jan 7). The folks in our church who set this up for us do a wonderfully creative job of setting up a "prayer space"-- we have a corporate journal for anyone to record notes from his/her prayer time, a second journal called "Remembering Answered Prayers," paints and paoer for artistic creations, a "wailing wall" for folks to post prayer requests, a cross to which we can nail our sins and exchange them for the riches of Christ, a map of the world, a comfy chair... It has just been extraordinary reading and looking at all that has been poured out from people's hearts. It's a way of touching that dynamic that Jamies described so well--there's both the intense personal intimacy with God (the "vertical") AND an intense co-sharing in that with one another (the "horizontal").
Honestly, it's hard for me to know how I'm doing in the intimacy-with-God department... but I KNOW that I am drawn in and deepened by the prayers of these fellow saints... which is, of course, GOD at work in and through them and me. A reminder that we are called in Christ to interdependence and life-held-in-common.
I have intended to make a comment or two, but I want to pray about it first!
Randy, always with the jokes!
Here's another angle on our prayer topic: following a recommendation from, yes, another of Eugene Peterson's books, I've adopted the practice of reading 5 Psalms a day, month in, month out, year by year...I guess I've been doing this for five years now. This is not a "new" idea--the practice is in fact quite ancient.
What strikes me is how differently the psalmists pray than the way I pray, and the ways in which I hear Christians pray... it's more than simply cultural and historical differences, and more than simply "we now have the Spirit in fullness, and they did not." One thing that emerges is the way the Psalms argue with God--they go right after Him! And this is connected to such a strong sense of calling and election, of God's people being God's people and therefore why is God doing such a poor job of being God: "How long, O Lord? Will you hide yourself forever...?" Anyway, I'm gaining some new appreciation for the Psalms as "the prayerbook of the Bible" and note that these prayers were frequently on the lips of Jesus (including and especially from the Cross) as well as on the lips of the first church (take alook at how often the Psalms are cited in Acts).
I've started watching Bob Mumford's presentations from ACM with my home group, and with our elders and deacons--saw the first one this week on "The Glory of God in the Face of Christ." Perhaps the heart of prayer is learning to hear God in a way that enables us to see things from His perspective, and to have him glorify himself by revealing Christ to us, forming Christ in us, and expressing Christ through us (the "us" in each instance being corproate, not individual). This way of thinking about prayer shifts the emphasis away from how we can "get" prayer to "work better." As Robert said, prayer is effectual, but Scripture doesn't necessarily gives us a whole lot of detail about the exact nature of its effectuality. We consider Elijah's prayer "very efectual" (this is, of course, the example James has in mind), but perhaps evaluate Jesus' prayer, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" as, how shall we put this, less effectual? Maybe James' point is not so much "Here's how to pray so that your prayers will have the best chance of being answered," but "If you have been righteous by Christ, KNOW that your prayers are effectual, whether you see the eeffects or not." What do you think?
Thanks to Brian, I'm back on the blog with the new format for getting in. Prayer was well covered by you astute gentlemen, and your last comments Robert were filled with heart issues for true intimacy with God as well as a corporate pursuit of His presence and power. As long time journeymen, it seems we all want the real deal in living out our faith...especially for some of us beautifully preserved senior saints. Blessing!
Hey guys. I'm back and ready to re-engage. Robert's reference to a litergical prayer that our perspective be sanctified and redirected to God's heart and purposes is basic to understanding the whole purpose of prayer. While prayer is, in part, asking God for stuff we want (good or bad), it mostly has to do with drawing closer to the Father. As we communicate with Him as the Holy Spirit directs, our own spirits are transformed to the place where we can confess, "not my will, but yours".
Phil 4:6-7 tells us to not be anxious about anything, but to release our requests to God. The result is not necessarily that we get what we ask for. The promise is that, when we do this, the PEACE of God that passes understanding guards our hearts (feelings) and minds (thoughts) in Christ Jesus. Finding the place where we can righteously ask for things that advance the KOG and that help us grow in grace, and yet keep us focused on the fact that His ways are not ours nor His thoughts ours. In any and every case we embrace His perfect will and understanding over our own. As we all come to that place together...harmony...one accord..we begin to see God move in mighty and wonderful ways. Think Pentecost! When this happens even "bad" stuff works together for our good....remember Stephen's stoning and the effective prayer he could offer up as he was dying. God's purposes are much larger than our individual well being. We will all die, attacking darkness or hiding under our beds, but His Kingdom reigns forever and those who trust in His magnificent mercy and grace have an eternal future in it. Our first prayer is "God help us!"
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